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Gehenna is the Jewish version of the "punishing afterlife" and the word refers to a valley just to the west side of the city of Jerusalem. must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. All of the trash, refuse, and dung from the city was dumped out there. If it was not condemned, it was because it wasn't widespread and there were more pressing issues. This is getting silly! But just as soon as Josiah died, the Jews returned to Tophet. So "time" as we know it is not eternal. Are there going to be new moons and sabbaths in eternity? Gehenna was a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem. The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. One of the strange things about all of the talk about whether punishment is eternal or not is the fact that if the Lord had wanted to communicate the idea that punishment would be eternal, there are several ways to do this in Greek and make it crystal clear. And he talks about those going this way because that is what the rich man asks for, for someone in heaven to come and alleviate his suffering. The books of Kings and Chronicles tell us that a wealthy family named "Hinnom" owned a garden near Jerusalem which first King Ahaz, and then even more audaciously, King Manasseh turned into a place for burning children as a sacrifice to the god Molech. Jerome also used the phrase "en aeturnum et ultra" ("in eternity and beyond") in his commantary on Collosians. He is not being literal here", "He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man.". Even if I couldn't convince you, I am glad that you got something out of it. Its a blank slate until this commentary pops up. People also ignore the context of what Jesus is talking about. What church are you talking about? Mark 9:47 / Jeremiah 32:35. Rob Bell takes the view in Love Wins that in Jesus' day Gehenna was the "city dump": "There was a fire there, burning constantly to consume the trash." It is a metaphor for the terrible consequences of rejecting "the good and true and beautiful life that God has for us". Obviously, this fire is not still burning today, so this fire had an "age to come" or better put a "forever result" quality to it vs. a duration quality to it. I had no idea that the Old Testament provides ample evidence for why the New Testament associates Gehenna with the abode of the damned. Of course you must look towards anti-Origenists to find out about that, not admirers of the man who swept his errors (with which they didn't agree) under the carpet like Eusebius or Rufinus. "For thus says the Lord God: I will deal with you as you have done, who despised the oath by breaking the covenant.". [.] It was also thought to be the location of Jerusalem's garbage dump, where the city's waste and the corpses of criminals were disposed by incineration. In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). Rather, god gives the gift of immortality to the saved only per apostle Paul. If He only referred to Gehenna itself, a garbage dump that was used as an incinerator outside the city of Jerusalem, the teachers of the law and the Pharisees in Jesus' time had nothing to do with the judgment of Gehenna. Still, that's no basis for any claims about how eternal does not mean eternal or how undying fire/worms suddenly mean dying-only-later fire/worms. So at that point there will be no more "aionian" life, it will be the same life as was lived in the "aion", but now it will continue outside of time. Ezekiel indeed prophesies that Sodom, Samaria and Juda would return to their former state. It smoldered there beneath the surface, incinerating the rotting, smelly garbage. In the context, it's a "causal" from (could even be translated as "by" as this Greek preposition is translated elsewhere in the NT) not a "spacial" from see 2 Thes. Hell fire, Gehenna the garbage dump with its constantly burning fire. One question to ask about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Why the need for a gulf to keep those in Abraham's bosom from going to the other side where there was torment? Ezekiel doesn't utter any either and he doesn't even touch on anything linked to "eternal fire". Thats it. If it had been one, we would expect to find evidence. He just told his audience that if there is part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off. What the text clearly says is that Sodom serves as an example linked to those suffering in eternal fire. Click the card to flip . Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. "the worm never dies" how do you turn never into "sometime in the future"? One is that the age-during is modified by what it refers to. So you don't want to "blot them out", you want to "reconcile all" but again this is just utter disrespect to human beings and their free will, which in turn is a denial of the opportunity to love. The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - posted in Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism: I've long accepted (without checking - shame on me) the argument that in NT Jerusalem, the valley of Hinnom contained a permanently burning garbage dump, and lay behind the use of Gehenna as a metaphor for complete and total destruction. It is also very instructive to study the writings of the early church fathers and church history to see how prevalent a belief universal salvation was, and then compare the conditions that surrounded the second council at Constantinople where they decided that a confession of belief in an eternal hell was one of the conditions for being accepted into "the church". But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. That the valley was just outside the city of Jerusalem made it an appropriate symbol for those excluded from divine blessing. 2:8 for additional contextual support. Paul is not only full of your verses but also full of admonition that salvation through grace doesn't mean a free ride for everybody. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. ), the Hinnon Valley was condemned as an unholy place. Gehenna is a real place. garbage heap, junk heap, junk pile, refuse heap . What church are you talking about? The Gray Waste of Hades, also known as the Gray Waste, was an Outer Plane in the Great Wheel cosmology model, home of the daemons. I would look at a phrase like this and wonder how anyone who didn't want to be deceived could think that it was talking about anything less than the rest of eternity: . No one. Dig down into and youll find evidence if garbage, followed by a ruined temple and burnt child sacrifices. Named in the New Testament in Greek form (from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom"), Gehenna originally was a valley west and south of Jerusalem where children were burned as sacrifices to the Ammonite god Moloch. There is a emergent/universalist writer named Sharon Baker who has a book called Razing Hell. The flies laid eggs on the surface of the dump. Jesus actually never talked about eternal torment. The Greek word GeHenna is often translated as Hell Fire in other Bibles. (v.23), "Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies?". My time, unfortunately, is limited too. But you are faking compassion you don't want the damned to suffer but have no problem with seeing them dead. The Valley of Hinnom ( Hebrew: , romanized : G en-Hnnm, lit. The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? When a fire is not quenched it burns UNTIL IT RUNS OUT OF FUEL. As for giving the 'damned' (an English word that has changed in meaning since being put in English bibles) their 'just desserts', in Jesus' day there were two common words for what we think of as "punishment". Outline of Biblical Usage [?] We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. If all men could be saved, it would be great, but we are long past this (let alone all creatures). [Worms and fire normally die and go out (no need for nitpicking about how going out is not being quenched) this is why Jesus raises the point that these worms and this fire (which is obviously figurative language) do NOT DIE and do NOT GO OUT. . Wild animals fought over scraps of food along the edges of the heap. "For your sister Sodom was not a byword in your mouth in the days of your pride, "before your wickedness was uncovered. From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. 66:24?. Some people use this historical tidbit to make a point either to paint a picture how foul, vivid and terrible hell would be, or alternately to suggest that there is no eternal hell, and the references Jesus makes to the fires of hell and torment was simply a reference to this burning trash pile. God refers to it as the "valley of slaughter" in Jeremiah 7:31 and in Jeremiah 19:2-6, a place of ruin and disaster.. I can use the common meaning of words in scripture. The gulf represents the uncrossable separation it is not meant to keep the saved from going over there because they have no reason to do so, as they are with God and His people. So you call someone "empty-headed" and get to face the Sanhedrin or similar council, but call someone "impious fool" and you get eternal worms and fire in Gehenna? ["Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies? OR, the age-during life with Christ could be just that, since in 1 Corinthians it talks about Christ giving up his kingdom to the Father at the end of time. I find it interesting that people use the ideas they have been taught about 'hell' being eternal and transfer that to a symbolic statement that Jesus made about worms and fire. After all, Samaria did not return either but found successors that, though unconneceted with the northern kingdom, called themselves Samaritans. But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. The objection that "eternal punishment" and "eternal life" are used in parallel in Matthew 25:46, and therefore aionian must means eternal is based on a false presumption that the "aionian life" which is spoken of would have to come to an end at the same time that the "aionian" punishment does. (v.23). Gehenna is the Greek version of the biblical word Gehinnom or Gei Hinnom (the valley of Hinnom Joshua 15:8). http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/ An article looking at Gehenna in the OT and why Jesus may have chosen to use this word. The explanation for the fire of Gehenna lies not in a burning trash dump, but in the burning of sacrificed children. He is the creator that loves his creation so much that he gave his only Son who was the only sacrifice Holy enough for the sins of mankind who defeated death that we may have the hope of everlasting life! The picture of the valley itself proves that it gas been filled in with a huge amount of fill. If it was consistently translated as 'eternal' people would see how ridiculous that idea is. Dead animals and bodies of executed criminals would be put there along with all trash. In the other dozen or so, to get the idea of "eternal" you have to read it into the words "aion" and "aionian". There is no biblical support for this, neither is there any literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods to suggest this. Jude is not using Sodom and Gommorah as examples of those who WILL be punished, the "suffering of eternal fire" in that verse is in the PRESENT TENSE. Jesus used it as an illustration of the final judgment of the wicked. 'Valley of the son of Hinnom' [1]) is a historic valley surrounding Ancient Jerusalem from the west and southwest. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, his hearers would think of the valley of rotting, worm-infested garbage, where the fire always burned, smoke always lingered, and if the wind blew just right, a smell that sickened the sense wafted in the air. (pp. Will those who survive not be able to believe that they are really safe until they go out and look at the corpses of those who persecuted them and cast them out? Rome? Gehenna -- the Valley of Hinnom -- was indeed a valley outside Jerusalem. goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved.". According to Chan and Sprinkle "The first reference we have to the Hinnom Valley, or Gehenna, as a town dump is made by a rabbi named David Kimhi in a Commentary, which was written in AD 1200." We should also note that there is no archeological evidence of Gehenna as a garbage dump. It is amazing how putting on the legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts can blind people to verses that out to stop them in their tracks and make them wonder "What is going on here?". But when the burning occured in such a valley, it left "dead bodies" for which the worms feasted on after the fire has destroyed them. In Luke 16:26 Abraham explains why he can't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of water. Know it is not eternal northern kingdom, called themselves Samaritans know it is not.... 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